EDIT:  I posted the following message earlier in the day when the first round of storms was coming through.  The sirens did go off tonight when that storm blew through.  I apologize for the tone of this post, but as Donna2 stated below, I too would still like to know exactly what the protocol is that determines when the sirens are sounded.  I assumed they would go off county-wide, but apparently it goes by neighborhood...?

Does the weather service not care about us here in Butler county?  Is it okay for us to be blown away by storms, while the rest of the Tri-state is given a warning about the approaching severe weather?  Truly, I'm a bit angry and confused - yet again.  Are we not under a Tornado Watch until 7:00 this evening?  Was there not a Severe Thunderstorm Warning issued for Butler county?  (Isn't that what I just saw on the weather alert I was watching on TV?)  I don't recall if it was Local12 or not, but it doesn't matter - the fact is, both of those conditions occuring at the same time are supposed to trigger the sirens, right?  So how come our sirens didn't go off around here in West Chester?  I mean, for crying out loud - there's one less than 200 yards from where I live.  Not a peep out of it?  What's going on?

This whole weather warnings/sirens thing is starting to confuse me.  They probably wouldn't blow the sirens around here until after a storm blew us away.   Honestly, I feel like they don't care about what happens to us up here. *end sarcasm*

P.S.  This is nothing against Local12 and its mets. 

After reading this post, I think it would be good if someone in the know replies.  Who actually hits the button to start the sirens in each county?  Does each county have it's own protocol as far as tornado watch/thunderstorm warning means sound the sirens?  Is the protocol different in Butler Co. than in Hamilton Co.?  Is every county different or was this a very big mistake made by Butler Co.?

I live in Dearborn Co. and I assume we have sirens, just NONE anywhere near my little northeast corner. 

Donna

The county, not the NWS sounds the sirens.  The NWS just issues the warnings.  Every county has a different policy.  Some sound by neighborhood, others sound with a severe thunderstorm warning in a tornado watch.  Others just wait for the tornado warning.  There is no one "blanket" policy.  And, as I've found, there's not much consistency to the policies either. 

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John M. Gumm
Meteorologist
WKRC-TV - Local 12
jgumm@wkrc.com

I knew the NWS doesn't sound the sirens and that's what I thought...every county has a different policy.  Bad idea...real bad idea.  If we have one NWS ( it is all technically one service isn't it?)  to issue watches and warnings for the US then we should have one policy for the sirens too.  Is it *that* difficult to get people to agree?

Donna

I agree 100%.  Very confusing.  That's why I always recommend people get the warnings sent to their cell phone...that way you know what's happening...and don't need to rely on a siren that may or may not go off.

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John M. Gumm
Meteorologist
WKRC-TV - Local 12
jgumm@wkrc.com

Hey John, I live in Colerain Township and last evening (6/4/08) there was an absolutely terrible storm that blew through our area (we are still without power at my house 16 hours and counting). Anyway, I didnt hear any warnings for our area (did I miss something?). I heard other people say that they heard warnings on other local stations, but I was watching Channel12 until we lost power and the only thing I heard you talking about was the situation in NKY. What gives?  The same thing happened yesterday morning when the storms came through. There was not a warning given until the storm had passed, and then it was given for EASTERN Hamilton Co. Are you telling me that the same storm was not severe when it hit western Hamilton Co.  Just wondering. Thanks

The system needs to be overhauled, period.  Today's Enquirer had several letters from readers complaining about the same thing I mentioned - confusion about what the sirens mean.  It should be more unified.

I agree with wishin4spring's sentiment, as I too have often (particularly in the past several years) noted that a severe storm with high winds will blow through West Chester, but there are no sirens and nothing has been said on the news about a severe storm until it crosses into Warren County.  By that time, I will have already witnessed tree limbs blown to the ground and flooding in the street.  So often I watch the news and here them say "A severe storm is heading into the Mason area at this time, so be on the lookout...yada yada yada."  I think to myself "Well, DUHHHH!  It's been through here already, and no one warned us about it!"

Oh well, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.  As I said, the system needs to be overhauled and unified.

I'm in Liberty Twp and Monroe is just over the line from me. When it was being announced that Monroe was a target, I still had not heard a siren...  I have yet to hear a siren other than the Wednesday almost Noon test.

trebor:

The system needs to be overhauled, period.  Today's Enquirer had several letters from readers complaining about the same thing I mentioned - confusion about what the sirens mean.  It should be more unified.

I agree with wishin4spring's sentiment, as I too have often (particularly in the past several years) noted that a severe storm with high winds will blow through West Chester, but there are no sirens and nothing has been said on the news about a severe storm until it crosses into Warren County.  By that time, I will have already witnessed tree limbs blown to the ground and flooding in the street.  So often I watch the news and here them say "A severe storm is heading into the Mason area at this time, so be on the lookout...yada yada yada."  I think to myself "Well, DUHHHH!  It's been through here already, and no one warned us about it!"

Oh well, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.  As I said, the system needs to be overhauled and unified.

Thanks tebor, I though I was making too much of this or maybe it was my imagination. Hopefully, they will come up with a unified procedure for severe weather warnings.  While I understand the reasoning behind sounding the sirens during a severe thunderstorm warning when there is a tornado watch in place, I also am aware that sounding the sirens too often without people seeing an actual tornado can make them complacent during severe weather. It is like the boy who cried "wolf" to some people. It concerns me that the general public will become immune to these warnings and will not heed them or take cover. Lets hope the NWS takes our concerns into consideration.

wishin4spring:

Hey John, I live in Colerain Township and last evening (6/4/08) there was an absolutely terrible storm that blew through our area (we are still without power at my house 16 hours and counting). Anyway, I didnt hear any warnings for our area (did I miss something?). I heard other people say that they heard warnings on other local stations, but I was watching Channel12 until we lost power and the only thing I heard you talking about was the situation in NKY. What gives?  The same thing happened yesterday morning when the storms came through. There was not a warning given until the storm had passed, and then it was given for EASTERN Hamilton Co. Are you telling me that the same storm was not severe when it hit western Hamilton Co.  Just wondering. Thanks

I can't comment on the evening storm since I wasn't on, but the morning storm did not have a warning until it got to eastern Hamilton County and strengthened.  Didn't really matter because I was calling for strong winds and small hail with it when it came out of Indiana well before the NWS issued the warning.  However, the storm did strengthen when it moved past downtown.  The only damage reports I saw were for the eastern part of Hamilton County with that storm. 

A lot of times, the NWS won't warn for a borderline storm until they have confirmation from a spotter it is severe.  Remember, they need to have winds OVER 58 mph and hail 3/4" or larger to be severe.  A 50 mph wind can knock down a tree (especially with moist soil), but they still might not warn on it.

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John M. Gumm
Meteorologist
WKRC-TV - Local 12
jgumm@wkrc.com

I wish I had Mother Nature on speed dial too... but problem is the metoroligist cannot predict EXACTLY what is going to happen.  The radar is great but at any moment things could change.  Now where I live in Franklin Township ( Ohio) you are lucky ( or unlucky) if you happen to walk outside at the moment a tornado is approaching because if not,  you cannot hear the sirens.  I live just on the border of Middletown and Franklin right off of 73 and take notice of warnings for Butler County more than Warren County.  My guess is the sirens I heard in the distance ( I mean far distance someone who is hard of hearing wouldn't have had a clue) came from the fire station or Miami U in Middletown.  Now I would be asking your local government officials why in the city of West Chester that houses some pretty snazzy homes and businesses "Why can you raise taxes to pay for all the improvements to that area, but not give us the alerts we need in a life saving situation?".

I was in the middle of cooking dinner June 4th when the storm hit and I didn't know anything big like that was coming, I noticed looking out my kitchen window and used my better judgement and headed for my cubby hole ( we do not have a basement).  I am not a meterologist but I got a pretty good sense of the weather having watched news casts for years about dangerous weather.  What hit us folks here were some pretty damaging straight line winds.  I saw the debris flying around outside my window and heard the thump of what later was a tree that has crashed into my patio funiture. Scary no doubt but not tornatic ( thank God).  But I am a redneck country girl ( used to be a city girl) and when you live out in the country you learn a few things, forget sirens when the horses head for cover and the cows are laying down you better get to shelter fast. 

We were not under a tornado warning but a severe thunderstorm warning ( STW).  I am just as confused as you are about warnings from city to city.  We have had STW in the past and the sirens never went off ( only a Tornado Warning would the sirens sound) but this time they did.  Unless someone saw something and for the sake of having people take cover they themselves in Middletown sounded those sirens.  I just dont know.

Two years ago people in Carlisle Ohio had no clue what was getting ready to happen until the tornado (F1) was right on them.  No time to get to shelter and in certain places no sirens sounded.  Certain folks who lived close to a school or firehouse heard sirens but others out in the country had no warning.  Carlise is in Warren county so my guess is that the areas of town were alerted ( no soon enough though) and those in rural areas heard nothing.  This is city and township problem that needs to be addressed in certain areas mine as well.

A funnel and touchdown can happen in seconds with no time to alert anyone I have seen some pretty threatening looking clouds over my house and I do not wait to hear a warning I just go to the cubby hole.  Doppler radar gave the news channels a better way to alert us but God gave me the common sense to see with my own two eyes when something doesnt look right.  So what if I spend some time in the cubby hole and nothing happens but God forbid if I didnt take notice and something did happen.  That morning there was a haze and a greenish tone about the area and the sky that night looked erie long before the storm hit.

Hey John, thanks for answering my questions.  I know you were not on duty during the evening storms on Wednesday. My point is that I heard on the radio before the storms hit Colerain that the NWS had posted severe thunderstorm warnings for Eastern Franklin Co, IN and eastern Dearborn Co. (WLW radio). I was on Colerain Ave. getting ready to go shopping when I heard the warning. I decided to race home (glad I did). I guess what bothers me the most is that Franklin & Dearborn Co. are to the direct west of us and since they were headed east, wouldn't it make sense to alert the people in the counties that are in the path? I do understand that NWS does not warn for "borderline" storms, but that is not a very comforting thought to me at present. The storms on Wednesday morning did not cause damage to us but the one on Wednesday evening sure did.

From the little bit that I was able to watch Tim prior to my power going out, he mentioned several times areas in the path of the storm, including Hamilton county.  He did a good job doing so even with him focusing much of the attention with the tornado warned storms, which was a priority at the point. But he did indeed manage to talk about Hamilton county being in the path of the storms off in Franklin and Dearborn counties.

James

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James
Weather Producer
WKRC-Local 12
jpatterson@local12.com

Thanks James. I guess I missed Tim talking about the storm headed to Hamilton County because I wasnt at home until right before the storm broke.  In the several minutes from the time I got home until the power went out, Tim was concentrating on the storms in NKY. Glad to know that he didnt drop the ball on warning the people in Western Hamilton County. By the way, I dont mean to imply at all that you guys dont do a good job, because you all do an excellent job. Thanks again.

I totally understand and I know that you weren't being critical at all.  It would be nice to try and cover every storm at the same time, but that's simply impossible, so you have to go with the storms that are more of a threat, which were the storms in NKY at the time since they were tornado warned.

James

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James
Weather Producer
WKRC-Local 12
jpatterson@local12.com